Filter by message states (for user id: -1, login: Anonymous):
results: 10
topic id 25265: Pricing
topic id 24883: The purpose of promotion and set your budget in advance
topic id 22503: Leads
topic id 26197: Paying twice for the same lead
topic id 22064: Questionable leads
topic id 14288: Declined "Leads" charged
topic id 18721: Old format
topic id 19454: Marketing Executive From Thumbtack Chooses Promoted Lead, Then Radio Silence
topic id 18206: New Model?
topic id 7183: I'm trying to remove a credit card remove ,from payments,system wont let me
Jeff
Level 5

Re: New system

HansenJC,

 

Those are awesome and very spot on points.  I believe that they will fall on deaf ears as have most of the complaints on most of the threads.  I realize the moderators are required to hype the new system but in some of my comments over the last couple of weeks I have pointed out similar points as you are making.  They hilariously push the point "To be honest many of them have expressed that they don't feel like voicing their being in favor of these new changes and success in many of these threads, as you can imagine it may not make them very popular".  But, as I've said in previous comments, no matter what, the math doesn't add up.  They may cringe in fear of becoming "unpopular", but yet Marco's video explaining the mess of a system has only 7 kudos.  They may not want to express their love of the new system but you'd think that they would have at least anonymously swamped Marco's video with kudos where no one could see names attached, something, anything that would at least bolster the position they are trying to put forth.  But just as there are no comments beyond the anecdotal evidence you refer to, there are no anonymous kudos for Marco's video from the"silent majority".  Math, it gets you every time.

Every system of data points has a bell curve.  Sometime balanced, sometimes blooped to one end or another.  But here, there is no curve.  That's intuitively and mathmatically not possible.  If you review comments on any subject prior to the changes you see a fairly even distribution of like, dislikes, and middle grounders.  But since the change, dissent, no likes (even in the form of anonymous kudos), no middle grounders.  Trends in data just don't shift like that.  Organically it went from a fairly even distribution of opinion prior to the change on a variety of subjects, to one of only dissent.  And, the explanation to try and rationalize it back to a point that anyone with business ecperience would recognize is being undertaken not just to put forth the position that the bell curve is evenly distributed but that it is overwhelmingly blooped to the support end.  Again, math and group dynamics do not work that way.  Now, I don't actually believe that there is a tidal wave of pros in support of the system.  To push that and expect pros to believe it is at best naive and at worst patronizing.  I believe that there is something else going on.

1.  If you notice in many many moderator comments, they have begun to refer to the service seekers as "customers".  This indicates a paradigm shift on TT part.  The pros are their customers and the service seekers are the pro's customers.  TT makes its money off the pros, the real customer.  If they are now referring to the service seekers as the customer, that represents a huge shift in perspective and one away from the interest of most in the pro community.  That is a huge shift in perspective that means something.

2.  I think the shift in perspective means that they are aware that they will lose a larger number of pros and that it is, if not intentional, at least desirable.  It allows them to focus on high volume pros, shift to a platform where the service seekers are TT customer and not the pros, and one that will through attrition weed out small and medium players and allow them to focus on a stealth rebranding where they focus more on the service seekers as customers while doing so on the pros dime.  In the end, to become a platform for service seekers where TT goes and finds the pros rather than a platform of one where they find the service seekers for the pros.  To do this, weeding out the small to medium players and narrowing to more common categories where they can apply volume dynamics would make sense.

3.  The cost of a quote has gone up by at least 3X, potentially much more when you take into account that they have increased from 5 to 20 pro bids and we now have to pay for the rediculously foolish concept of paying when someone contacts us whether we get the job or not.  With this change in pricing I would assume they are as a company making at least 3X and possibly 5-6X the amount of moneyn as they were previously.  With this kind of cash gush, they could theoretically lose up to 2/3 of the pro community (remember the small and medium players) and still wind up with more cash than before the changes.  That would lean them out to move to a service seeker focus with fewer categories and ability to tap volume dynamics for those that remain.

Sure, it's a theory, but in theory, it makes more sense, explains more, relies on a better understanding of group dynamics, trend analysis and just common sense than the circular answers that always come when they come at all.  Again, everything shakes out on some kind of bell curve.  But the patronizing answers are more amusing than anything else for anyone who has ever run a business.  OK, so the silent majority of pros who love the new changes are timid to post responses.....where are the anonymous kudos?  That would at least show us that yes, there are people who love it, hidden as they are.  Instead....crickets.  

You were right about the deflection.  Most moderator comments have employed logic fallacies common when pushing a point that is appearing.....elusive.  One is a causal fallcy.  "The pros don't like the new changes so it must be because they don't understand them, therefore we will focus on making them understand them".  This doesn't hold up because with the exception of pricing (I think that is more based on tarot cards and dice rolls), I think the pros understand the new system perfectly well and have, as business owners with experience in their field, realized it stinks.  To continue to assume its just a matter of educating us to the point we love it too is a causal logic fallacy.  It is also a circular logic fallacy, petitio principii, as they seem to be constantly saying "The new changes are positive for pros because they were designed to be positive for pros".  Yes, they will allude to the fact that "nothing is perfect" and "We're listening" and "we're working on it".  But when a complex series of changes is rolled out some aspects will be fine, some will need minor tweaking, and some will stink and need to be scrapped.  And in those cases, it is evident pretty early on which fall into each category and what they can and should do.  They are identifiable.  After the amount of time that has passed since rollout, any responsible business team in charge of those changes would be able to say "Here are two or three things that did not work, here is what we are doing remedially today to correct and here is what we are doing to fix it and here is the date".  "Nothing is perfect" and "We're listening" and "we're working on it" mean they either don't know, or they aren't going to.  They would have had far less outcry of they would specifrically state what didn't work, what the immediate workaround is and when the fix will be done in order to satisfy their customer. By the way TT, the pros are the customers.  (Oh, by the way if my weeding out theory is correct and they are shifting focus, the circular responses may instead be a red herring logic fallacy, meant to distract us as they shift focus from a platform catering to pros to one that caters to service seekers, but that's a topic for another day).

In any case, sorry for the long response.  Again, I think you nailed it because you are coming at it from the standpoint of sound logic based on business experience.  And to Thumbtack, who may worry that my attitude and that of others is overwhelmingly negative I can only say this.  On behalf of most of the pros here....."Nothing is perfect, we're listening and we're working on it".

HansenJC
Level 10

Re: New system

@JeffYour last line is the icing on the cake.

Thanks for the more in-depth review of the same data I have been looking at. You express it with skill.

I have a concern that the entire TT organizations has limited or no experience with the subject matter that you present here.

John C Hansen, LEED AP
Hansen Home Inspections
Jeff
Level 5

Re: New system

Thanks, and I agree.  I don't think they have the experience to deal with it either.  It's unfortunate but common with internet and app based startups.  Full disclosure, I'm on TT as a comedian and have done well at that here until the changes.  But I am a Lean Six Sigma DFSS Greenbelt with over 25 years in turnaround management and rapid scale management including startups in 3D printing and an app based service similar to this one (who by the way almost tanked due to the same type of business myopia due to lack of experience in business outside the app world).  So I've seen this kind of stumbling over their own feet before.  I also do microconsulting developing SOPs for startups and do complete system overhauls for companies whose current SOPs have tanked.  The Six Sigma in me leaves me shaking my head, the comedian in me finds the circular answers, and lack of depth and grasp of what those answers sound like, hilarious.  Anyone who has ever managed a business and has rolled out a project would have already have made at least some incremental remedial changes to protect image and stop the pain.  I fear the cash gusher has blinded them to that and we won't see that they are shifting focus until long after most of us have gone.  We'll see.

onecall2
Level 6

Re: New system

I have a nice round to it coin

If youed like to use it as another

Excuse

beep777
Level 6

Re: New system

I take time to craft a response to all the jobs I bid on, but the canned responses from all the Pros with "Promote" on appear ahead of me and most of the time the customer does not even make it down to my response to even potentially reach out. I am beginning to think it is not even worth my time to respond to any job postings. The little time i mistakenly had promote on, i got to many false contacts that never led anywhere.

B

Re: New system

Strongly disagreed!  It may be a successful upgrade for Thumbtack's bank account.  For US, the Pros, YOUR REAL CLIENTS, its not working and you are NOT LISTENING.

we don't know how much are we paying for a lead, until its paid.

We don't know the budget of the client anymore. So we can not choose to reply or pass, we must reply all the lead which end up in a "your price is too high, out of my budget" message for the user, and then we are $62 down.  

I've been using Thumbtack since 2014, and I saw a lot of improvement but this is the worst, you are hurting YOUR CLIENTS. (Not your users) don't forget who is your client.

Go back the way it was before.

Thank you

Moderator Meckell
Moderator

Re: New system

@CappellaPhoto you mentioned that you don't know how much you're paying for a quote until it's paid. This was updated a couple weeks ago and now all pros will be able to see the cost before they decide to send a quote. You just click on the request details and from there, select "View More."
As far as the cost of the quote, I understand that it's a lot higher than before. However, you're only paying when a customer contacts you versus paying to send the quote wondering if you'll ever get a response. It has more value now than before. With that being said, we're still working on pricing and would love your feedback for your service in your area. Go here to let us know what you think. 

0 Kudos

Re: New system

@Meckell Thank you for let me know about this upgrade. Do you know we need to reply as quick as possible in order to be between the 5 pros? So, now beside reading al the lead request I have to click another link to see if Im willing to pay for the job, which Im not sure if is good or bad because now there is no budget.

example
Lead - Liz

Commercial Photography - 41-50 Shots

I sent my quote.

Liz - May I have a quote?

Me - Thank you for your consideration, my quote is on the body of the message

Liz - So sorry  I didnt expand. Thanks for your time, out of budget, Thanks again.

Thumbtack -  $53.65 (cha-ching)

This is a clear sample why is not working.

Let the lead include a budget with the option  • I'm not sure. this will help me to filter cheap lead from good ones... like we were doing for the last 4 years.

Im paying WAY MORE now than before and this is a fact, you can check my payments against my hires.  

Please review this and go back.....  

Thank you

 

DIego

 

 

jdpage
Level 6

Re: New system


@Meckell wrote:

@CappellaPhotoyou mentioned that you don't know how much you're paying for a quote until it's paid. This was updated a couple weeks ago and now all pros will be able to see the cost before they decide to send a quote. You just click on the request details and from there, select "View More."
As far as the cost of the quote, I understand that it's a lot higher than before. However, you're only paying when a customer contacts you versus paying to send the quote wondering if you'll ever get a response. It has more value now than before. With that being said, we're still working on pricing and would love your feedback for your service in your area. Go here to let us know what you think. 


We might only pay if a customer responds, but an example put forth by @CappellaPhoto should not be charged to him. Explain to your boss to explain to your boss's boss that we would rather quote 10 jobs at $5 each, be charged immediately, and be happily waiting for a response than to throw all our eggs into one basket for $50 and receive a useless reply and be charged for that "contact".

Highlighted

Re: New system

@jdpage Thank you for your support.  Yesterday I was refunded the money.

We should keep the fight to get the Budget Information back from the users.

 

Thank you


Diego