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topic id 23817: Model of when you get charged
topic id 22503: Leads
topic id 23308: Hefty charge for a dead-lead
topic id 22064: Questionable leads
topic id 14288: Declined "Leads" charged
topic id 18721: Old format
topic id 19454: Marketing Executive From Thumbtack Chooses Promoted Lead, Then Radio Silence
topic id 18206: New Model?
topic id 7183: I'm trying to remove a credit card remove ,from payments,system wont let me
topic id 17313: Thumbtack pricing for professionals
Lar
Level 9

Dwindling Lead Theory

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I've been pondering reasons for my dwindling leads and I've got a theory. No hard and fast figures here, just speculation based on my own experience and observations as a formerly successful TT Pro.

I think it's fair to assume that TT end-users will have varying degrees of interest in actually hiring a Pro. 

Most TT end-users I feel have only a vague INITIAL interest in actually hiring a Pro. The reason I say that is because the majority of leads I quote on never actually end up hiring any Pro. Only a select few leads seem to turn into a deal either closed by me or another Pro. 

The end-users initial vague interest usually translates into a simple question they want answered, which is, "How much roughly would it cost me to hire a [profession]" - that's their bottom line, at least initially.

Before Promote (and before Instant Match) for an end-user to get an answer to that question they would need to enter the details of their job and wait to be contacted by Pro's. The Pro's would receive the end-users details, send their quotes and begin their one-on-one sales process to SELL the end-user on their services.

Most end-users with an initial vague interest would get the prices and you'd never hear from them again. A small few though (depending on the Pro's responses) would have their interest piqued and the good Pro's would do their job and work hard to turn that initial vague interest into a defined interest and subsequently into a deal.

The only way the end-user's were able to obtain the pricing information they wanted was by having the Pro's reach out to them. The Pro's HAD an opportunity to PITCH and SELL their services. The quoting process opened that door.

 

That doesn't happen anymore with Promote though.

With things as they are now if an end-user with a vague interest in hiring somene wants pricing all they need to do is use Search. They will see the prices of Promoted Pro's which for the most part is all their vague interest amounted to and then be on their merry way. Some of these end-users may view a profile here or there out of curiosity or to get some more information but they too will likely move on without feeling the need to reach out to a Pro.

Why would they do that? Well, their vague interest has been satisfied. They wanted pricing (and maybe some other general information) - they got what they wanted and moved on. The Pro's never had the chance to pitch them personally.

These end-users with vague interest are invisible to us. We'll never even know they were there were it not for the Views and Profile View stats.

Think about this.

Have a look at the leads you closed in say 2017. How many of those started off as an end-user with vague interest just wanting to know what you charged? You did your pitch, you sold them on YOU and you turned their initial vague interest into a deal. You did your job well and that's why TT worked for you back in the day.

Now, think about how many of those deals you'd be able to pick up today? I bet most of them would find TT, do a quick Search, get some pricing to satisfy their curiosity and then be gone filing away that information for another day. You'll never know they had been on TT and you'll never have the chance to pitch them and turn their vague interest into a deal. That's why TT doesn't work for you now and why you're not getting anywhere near the number of leads you used to.

Regards,
Laurence.

 

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Moderator Meckell
Moderator

Re: Dwindling Lead Theory

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@Lar thanks for sharing your thoughts about this. I'm sorry to hear that you aren't finding success and I want to help in any way that I can to turn that experience around for you. I first want to point out that even with promote, you still have the opportunity to sell yourself to the customer and win them over. You can do this by doing two things. First is having a great profile filled with reviews, photos, and more information about you and your business. From there, when a customer reaches out, you have a great opportunity to be personable in your response to them just like you did with the old system. 

A lot of pros are finding success with promote. Upon that, more customers are getting in contact with pros than they were before. The old system wasn’t sustainable and let me tell you why. 80 percent of customers who came to Thumbtack didn’t even see a pro show up in their inbox. Now, we don't see that problem and It's overall a healthier marketplace from both pros and customers. We wouldn't be keeping this system around if it wasn't working. 

With all fo that being said, If you have any suggestions or ideas about promote that would help you and other pros, please send them my way. You've found with Thumbtack and I want that to continue for you. 

 

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Lar
Level 9

Re: Dwindling Lead Theory

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I've seen the '80% of people who came to TT didn't see a Pro' statistic mentioned before.

I can well imagine that previously 80% of end-users who came to TT didn't see a Pro. Why would that be? Because those 80% only had a vague interest in hiring a Pro in the first place and were only after some pricing. They would come onto TT, see that they would have to fill in some information about their job, decide that it was too much trouble for them to do that and they would leave.

The other 20% of end-users actually did take the time to enter details of their job. The job was sent out to Pro's ... The Pro's decided whether they would submit a quote or not. I recall that up to 5 Pro's could submit quotes to the lead.

With the new system...

The 80% who previously didn't stick around on TT now actually get to see the pricing via Search. Some may even look at a profile or two. A few may even reach out to a Pro directly. The end-user is not required to directly interact with a Pro to obtain the information they need. The Pro's don't even know they were on TT.

The 20% who would have previously taken the time to fill in the form with their job details (which was sent to the Pro's) don't need to do that anymore either. They can do a Search, get pricing, browse around a bit, and if they want to they can single out one or two Pro's to contact. 

ALL (every single one) of those 20% would previously have been contacted by up to 5 Pro's. Now only those end-users who EXPLICITLY decide to reach out to a Pro will actually end up interacting with a Pro. It is no surprise to me that Pro's are reporting that they are receiving fewer leads because of the recent changes.

I think you are placing too much emphasis on the efficacy of end-users seeing Pro profiles. Profiles do play an important role in grabbing the attention of an end-user but they are only useful if they prompt the end-user to actually reach out to the Pro.

What was far more valuable was being able to correspond with an end-user directly in the way that things used to work. We could PERSONALIZE our interaction with that specific end-user, quote them, actually have a conversation with them.

I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to me Meckell but I honestly feel that your perspective as a support rep for TT is so different from the Pro's that you aren't able to see things as we do. You have the best of intentions but there is little you can do to directly address my concerns in a practical way. I understand that Meckell, please don't see that as a criticism of you or what you are trying to do here by responding to our messages. It is the way it is.

You mention that...

A lot of pros are finding success with promote. Upon that, more customers are getting in contact with pros than they were before

This is not at all helpful to me and is completely counter to what I have seen. 

I've seen a significant reduction in the number of leads your service provides and consequently a reduction in the amount of deals I have closed.  Virtually every Pro who has commented on this topic has reported the same experience. Are we all wrong? What are we missing here? What are we doing different to the, as you say, 'lots of pros who are finding success with promote' ?

Regards,
Laurence.

 

 

JSGDS
Level 7

Re: Dwindling Lead Theory

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@Lar   Why are customers less interested in hearing from you?  Any idea where you rank among your competitors?  Are you getting the leads that are interested in you? 

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Lar
Level 9

Re: Dwindling Lead Theory

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I'm a TopPro - rank #1 in my area - 21 hires, 25 reviews - link.

In Insights over the last 4 weeks I've had 296 Listing Views, 34 Profile Views and 2 Leads.

I closed one lead, The other wanted to schedule call but didn't even view my replies or respond to me. I requested a refund which was given.

@JSGDS asked "Why are customers less interested in hearing from you?"

I know a few TT magicians in my area. They hardly get any leads anymore either. It's not just me.

I think the vast majority of TT end-uers searching for a Magician in my area are basically just interested in obtaining pricing and have only a vague interest in hiring anyone. When they come to TT they are just window shopping. The end-user gets on TT to obtain pricing, they do a Search, get the pricing information they want and with their curiosity satisfied they leave. There is no need for them to reach out to a Pro anymore to get pricing because the pricing for Promoted Pro's is shown in the Search.

I believe that's why there has been a big drop off in leads. Previously the only way an end-user could obtain pricing was to fill in a job request. The request was then pushed out to the Pro's as a lead. That doesn't happen any more. End-users can get the pricing (and other information about Pro's) just using TT Search - no need for them to contact the Pro's directly.

Speculation on my part obviously, but that's my working theory at the moment. 

Nothing I can do about it unfortunately. It is what it is.

Regards,
Laurence.

Lar
Level 9

Re: Dwindling Lead Theory

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@JSGDS  Any idea where you rank among your competitors?  Are you getting the leads that are interested in you? What are your stats for the last 4 weeks? 

Regards,
Laurence.

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JSGDS
Level 7

Re: Dwindling Lead Theory

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@Lar  

Where we rank?- #1 for our service and industry (we don't use promote), we have 206 reviews and a 4.9 star rating.  We are just a 3 man company (just hired extra help a couple months ago).  I wouldn't know where to begin explaining all the steps and strategy's we needed to take in order to get to this point.  Now that we put in the work we are now finally seeing the benefit's, when a customer submits a request we generally get them on the phone or a msg back, this is most likely because we have over double the amount of reviews to our next closest competitor.  You can do the same thing Lar but its not going to happen overnight and you really need to grind in order to get to this point.  

As far as our insights- we had 291 views (32 profile views) we sent/payed for 13 leads and landed 7 jobs from those. 

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MR
Level 10

Re: Dwindling Lead Theory

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What I find interesting about TT these days is how "feast or famine" the system is. There are few pros reporting that they are getting a pretty steady stream of leads who do reply back. Then there are so many who state that they get virtually 0 leads, and no response back from the lead if they get one.

There is nothing in between.

The people who are starving usually have great profiles, respond back quickly, are personable, and do all of the things that TT recommends.

Is the issue regional? Is it related to type of service? Is it realted to complexity of job? or is it a bug in the system? 

To me it is perplexing just how different experiences are from one pro to the next when in reality the pros are doing the same thing. There has to be something causing this... but I have the feeling it is in the Thumbtack software - something is just not working as designed.

DJStevie
Level 9

Re: Dwindling Lead Theory

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@MR 

I agree, it's either feast or famine. But from what I've seen in this Community, it's mostly famine as of late. I just don't understand how some don't use Promote and are ranked number 1 and finding success?

I finally hit that 16% in leads, came in the other day..Now for 4 weeks, I've received 6 leads, 1 hire..batting .167 during that span. With the updated statistic, I have now dropped to number 3 in my area, as compared to number 1 last week.

I don't know if it's regional, by job category, or anything else? But I know it's more than frustrating, yet I'm told to be patient and have faith. If all Pros are doing the same thing, then I'm with you, what's the problem of not receiving leads via Promote? My brother ran his own computer software business til he retired couple of years ago, and he told me last night that it's more likely a software issue. But who knows if we will ever know what is going on?

Just praying for some changes soon.

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MR
Level 10

Re: Dwindling Lead Theory

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@djstevje
I agree. I worked in IT and worked on an ecommerce site at one of the world's largest airlines where the mobile app and website serves millions of customers a day. This has all the making of a software issue or an issue with to two sides miscommunicating between Google and Amazon services. I do know that TTs code base is almost 10 years old now and the new system is layered on the original code so there is much room for issues here